Carradine vs Joe Chill


(TN by Knife)

"Some people steal to stay alive, and some steal to feel alive. Simple as that." -V.E. Schwab


Carradine: The man who made Spider-Man a hero 

Joe Chill: The man who created the Batman 

Some heroes start with a rocket to earth. Some a rocket from earth to space. Some are born with it Some obtain powerful objects; but all too often it starts with a bang. A single shot to a loved one can make both hero and villain arise, and these two took that shot, making some of the most iconic heroes the world would ever see. But let's see how they feel on the other side of the barrel, to see who would win a DEATHBATTLE.

Before We Begin...

It's not controversial to say that comics are a mess. While Carradine has been mostly consistent, Joe is very subject to change, but we're taking everything shown in the mainline comics as they are all canon to each other at this point in time. We'll also take into account stuff like What Ifs and Elseworlds to a degree, as many universes just have a single change in the timeline, therefore they should be mostly the same as the main universe; although obviously only to a certain degree, like the world where everyone is dinosaurs would be insane to count for this. Things like guidebooks or similar secondary material will be counted as well, as it's used to inform readers on the respective comics of the company. It should also be noted we're going at this from every angle, so buckle up for this one. 


Background 

Carradine

Not every villain is a super-powered madman. Some are simply men with a desire for fortune, taking any route necessary to get it. Carradine was a burglar adept at breaking and entering, going to prison many times, and was once imprisoned next to a well known criminal who found out about a treasure under a house, so once he got out he got some quick funds from robbing a studio, out-running the cops and was unimpeded by the Spider-Man. Once he entered the elevator he was free, and soon ran to the house where May and Ben Parker lived, as when Ben tried to stop him, he shot him in an act of surprise. Soon, without money but one kill, he left to a warehouse, yet the boy underneath Spider-Man's mask, Peter Parker, was the nephew of the man he killed, soon coming after him. He was dealt with, yet taught Spider-Man an important lesson. Yet that was not the end of him, as he eventually escaped prison again, and went after the Parker house in order to find treasure once again, yet in there he'd find out the identity of the Spider-Man, and realizing what he did to his uncle, was riddled with fear and his heart gave out. And while he died there, his impact on Peter would never leave.


Chill

One rainy night in Crime Alley, Gotham, a city filled with mad-men with bombs and litterally monstrous criminals, the event that changed everything came from a simple mugger and one gunshot. Joe Chill held the Wayne family at gunpoint for the wife's pearls, and when the dad came to confront the man a shot rang out, killing him, with the shock killing the wife, and their son Bruce standing there to suck up the pain. Some say Joe was a hired gunman, some say a psychotic murderer with no remorse, yet many, including Bruce, say he was just a mugger who took a shot from being startled. Bruce would become the Batman: the terror to all crime in Gotham, and eventually would meet the man who murdered his parents again. Joe would find out the identity of the Bat in a fit of rage by Bruce, and Joe then understood he was the one who created the Bat. Soon after he'd try to tell the other criminals of Gotham the Batman's name, yet they'd soon turn on Joe for creating the Bat, and he'd be gunned down much like he did to the Waynes. Bruce would try to save Joe, and while he didn't live, the memory of that night in Crime Alley stayed with Bruce forever.


Experience/Intelligence

Carradine 

While not as spectacular as some of Spidey's fellow foes, as far as basically normal dudes go, Carradine isn't anything to scoff at. He's a skilled burglar and hardened criminal, being able to break himself out of tricky situations, and it being said a killer like him could hold off an army in the right place, though this is almost certainly hyperbolic. Where things get massively more insane is through the Marvel guidebooks, which have his skill at a comparable level to characters like Galactus, Eternity, and even the Living Tribunal, who are all cosmic entities with varying levels of omniscience. 


Chill

While certainly no supervillain, Joe's exact skills have fluctuated over the years. While in many instances Joe's simply a mugger, sometimes even a school drop, but in others he's shown as a skilled hired gunman or mass murderer even being able to help with Batman against guys in hand to hand, or even setting up an entire gang before being gunned down. He was also sentenced to a jail with actual super powered villains, proving how shockingly formidable he is. Even weirder however is that there's implications of Joe being Satan himself, but this is seldom elaborated on. 


Equipment 

Carradine 

Gun

The gun that changed Peter forever. Used to shoot Ben, it's a rather basic gun for comics outside of the traumatic memories.

Bottle 

A bottle he was drinking from used to bash Mysterio's head in.

Crowbar 

A crowbar used to break into houses, but could also be a pretty nifty blunt force weapon.


Chill

Gun

Stated to be a .45, this iconic gun is about what you'd expect. The metal has also been melted down before and used for Batman's suit.

Snub Nose and Shotgun

Joe's has had multiple guns, and while in a separate universe, he should still have these in the main timeline.

Hook

For some reason, Chill decided a hook hand would make a perfect part of his arsenal. It sure is a hook.


Abilities 

Carradine 

Fear

Carradine's killing of Ben was so terrifying it haunts Peter to this day, someone who's gone toe to toe with monsters, sociopaths, higher dimensional gods, and literal Satan, all while cracking jokes; yet Carradine still torments Peter mentally.

Immortality Negation 

In the What If where Ben is a Herald of Galactus,  Carradine still managed to kill him. To do such a feat is impressive as Heralds like the Silver Surfer can come back from deconstruction, literal nothingness, and even becoming just a thought. Characters with Power Cosmic are also attuned with all of existence, making this even more impressive.

Creation

In Marvel, reality can be shaped by thought, with people's beliefs being able to empower and give form to metaphysical entities of story in the form of gods. It's also stated every man's mind is a universe, with people having entire dimensions stored in their conscious. 

Immortality 

Marvel works on a sliding timescale where the past always becomes the present, meaning dying from old age isn't an issue. Marvel also works on stories, where as long as a character's story stays interesting they'll stay alive and around, with even just fans talking creating new canonical stories such as What Ifs. 


Chill

Fear

Joe's killing of the Waynes traumatized Bruce even far into his career as Batman, after fighting psychotic clowns, alien conquerers, gods that can end creation, and the concept of evil itself; but Joe still gives Bruce pause in fear and trauma.

Possession 

After dying, Joe's ghost would remain, able to possess people to continue his work and summon hellfire, although he has to make a deal with the person to possess them.  

Subjective Reality 

In DC, the world functions off the idea of the Collective Unconscious, in which the wider thoughts of humans influences reality. In a particular case, people's belief that they were the dominant species retroactively changed the world to make that be the case.


Immortality 

Much like Marvel, DC works on a sorta unaging model as shown above with Superman staying 29 for years, so dying from old age isn't an issue. It's also been shown with entities like Retconn that character's stories can be tampered with and preserved to keep them interesting, with this encapsulating even fanon interpretations.


Feats

Carradine 

Strength 
Speed


Durability 

Chill

Strength 
Speed
Durability 

Weaknesses 

Carradine 

Carradine has a weak heart, being his ultimate cause of death. While he still has fought for awhile without anything happening, it's still a big problem in a sticky situation.

Chill

Chill got cancer in the later stages of his life, making him completely stuck to a hospital bed if he didn't want to die. Now obviously we aren't pulling Chill out in a wheel chair for this fight, so we're assuming he's not that far in, but it's a disadvantage nonetheless 


Before the Verdict 

Army Statement 

Carradine is stated to be able to hold off an army inside the old warehouse in a What If story. There's a somewhat similar statement in the original where Carradine states he could hold off the police until the moon comes up, but the main problem is the importance of the warehouse, as Peter specifies "in that gloomy old place", implying the warehouse simply granted a non permanent buff to Carradine, and that normally he isn't an army buster

Ghost Chill 

This form, while certainly impressive, does need some context. Joe isn't just gonna be dead then instantly possess Carradine, he simply doesn't work like that. While it has awesome powers like creating hellfire, it took years for Joe to actually possess anyone, and it required a deal, making this not too combat applicable for as fucking awesome as it is.


Verdicts 

Stats

Now this is quite interesting. On higher ends both scale to threats to Multiverse and beyond, even in cosmologies with beyond infinite dimensions, making it very hard to find a clear winner in strength except for one thing: Carradine is given the same strength as Doctor Strange, who is on the level of a fusion of both cosmologies, while Joe can only put up on the level of DC's. On a much lower scale, both can take hits from the heroes they created, and when comparing the Bat and the Spider, it's rather obvious who's superior. Bruce's strongest showing is surpassing Adam Strange, who tanked the earth's expansion for over 77 kilotons of TNT, which is nothing to scoff at...unless you're Spidey, who tanked an exajoule of power, which Bruce's feat would be 0.0322168% of the power of. And on the lowest we can argue for both, Carradine generally proves better. Joe can beat up thugs? Carradine can knock a guy out with a single hit. Joe can briefly survive being bludgeoned with a rock? Carradine took a table to the face and walked it off. Yet both could most likely kill the other with one shot, but we still have only covered strength and urability. Now the speed of thought in both is easily Immeasurable, and with higher scale they obviously are too, but on lower ends Carradine again comes out on top. Joe's never shown matching Bruce's speed, meanwhile Carradine has tagged Peter, and even beyond that, compared to a depowered Spider-Man, who dodged bullets, so when it comes to who'll shoot first it's most likely Carradine.

Abilities/Arsenal 

When it comes to weapons, they're pretty even. Joe takes an advantage in distance with more types of guns, yet Carradine proves superior close up with the bottle and the crowbar far surpassing Joe's cool lil' hook hand. In terms of abilities, both are quite similar, neither will age so just waiting won't make a winner, as unlikely of a wincon that already was. Both also have basically the exact same ability to cause fear, making that a mostly mute point. Where things get more abstract is the subjective reality vs the creation. As the speed of thought is Immesurable in both series, it's unlikely either will get blitzed before they can use these, so which is superior? The answer is most likely creation. Subjective reality in DC moreso focuses on large groups of people rather than the individual, and although creating is superior with the more people, it can still be created with a single person's belief, it's moreso just limited how far it can go, but it's more likely Carradine can just imagine "God 2" to smite Joe than Joe just convincing everyone Carradine isn't real or something. Lastly, ghost Joe can't do much unless he makes a deal, which being fair, Carradine may go for, but at the same time people in Marvel have entire universes in their mind, meaning trying to possess Carradine may just send Joe to his mind universe for all eternity.

Tertiary Factors 

In terms of intelligence and skill it's really a gamble. Joe's lower showings are nothing to, Carradine while his higher shows should surpass Carradine quite easily. Well that's when we don't account for the power grid in the Marvel guidebooks, putting Carradine on the same league of fighting skill as people like Galactus or the Loving Tribunal, who obviously far surpass anything Joe's seen, especially when we've seen what happens when Joe faces an omniscient being.


Conclusion 

Carradine 

“He's not some super-villain: just a common burglar, an ordinary man. Isn't he? But how can an ordinary man do what's he's done? How can an ordinary man pull a trigger... and destroy a world?”

Advantages:
  • Stronger no matter the end
  • Faster on lower ends while only tying for high
  • Potentially way more skilled
  • Better close ranged weaponry 
  • Could create God 
  • Immortality negation could potentially get rid of ghost Joe

Disadvantages:
  • Heart problems could cause issues 
  • Doesn't have a definitive way to kill ghost Joe
  • Wasn't given a name

Chill
"Just a punk with a gun. The kind of two-bit hoodlum I chew up and spit out without working up a sweat. But I can never STOP him. Time and time again I find myself in this street corner, rage and hate boiling in my veins...and he just LAUGHS. A common punk? No! HE'S DEATH ITSELF!"

Advantages:
  • More long ranged options 
  • More consistently sane
  • Cancer is a overall better weakness (as insane as that sounds)
  • Hook hand

Disadvantages:
  • Loses stat trinity 
  • Ghost Chill is overall unusable 
  • No power grid?

Ok so did I just step out of a mass psychosis or something? Genuinely what the fuck did I just spew out my mouth? I don't know how to even begin summarizing that, so uh the winner is...

Carradine!

Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

AoSTH Dr Ivo Robotnik vs SHS Dr Victor Von Doom

Image
" No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks ."-Mary Wollstonecraft Robotnik:  The Soon to be Ruler of Mobius Doom: Villainville's Grand Leader For every hero, there must be a villain, and even since birth these two have been readied for that purpose. From the constant bullying from their mothers, other kids, and just about anybody else, they knew the only good world possible is one ruled by THEM. But those pesky, meddling, rage inducing heroes stop them at every step. Whether it's robots, magic crystals, or cosmic powers, they'd always be thwarted by their heroic adversaries. But now the only people in their way is each other, so let's see once and for all who would win in a DEATHBATTLE! ...blog. Before We Begin... For the rule of cool we will be taking a loose approach to both's canons, meaning basically anything that uses the AoStH or SHS designs will be taken into account unless very highly definitively...
Read more

Auren Da'at vs Alice

Image
"A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted at the end. You live several lives while reading."- William Styron Auren: The Man Who Can Tell You What is Killing the Stars Alice: The Bibliomaniac Books. Knowledge. Life. All part of the same weirdly shaped three sided die. Books can be so life-like, yet they're forever fictitious, made to be shaped by both reader and author, providing insight on something you've never known. These two -book bound gods shall now have their narratives collide and fight to find out who would win a DEATHBATTLE! Before We Begin... Although neither have very long lists of media, there should be some things to be noted. Beginning with Bibliomania, due to the fact it only has one rather short manga, it's an obvious source to go off of for Alice. With Auren however, things become somewhat more interesting. You see, the author of I Can Tell You What's Killing the Stars has actually made a reboot for a future...
Read more